Having little or no money is not a good reason to get stuck with a poor quality gun or not buy one at all.
There are many firearms that are well built, will last a good amount of time when shot correctly, and can fit into your budget. In times of civil unrest, or other situations where you need to protect yourself and your family, nothing can take the place of a gun.
Stick to New Guns
At first glance, new guns may cost more. On the other hand, when you buy a new gun, it means you are the first owner. As such, you won’t have to worry about situations where the previous owner did not clean the gun properly, or did something else that shortens the lifespan of the weapon. When you buy a new gun, it will also come with a manufacturer’s warranty.
Pay Attention to the Model and Its History
Many guns on the market today have precursors that are still available for sale. Even though these older models may be cheaper when sold as brand new, it may not be worth your while. Pay careful attention to design improvements that lead to better accuracy, reliability, and safety.
How to Buy Used Weapons
If you cannot find a good quality gun at an affordable price, there may still be options in the used gun market. Before you commit to a purchase, research the model online to find out how much it is going for on the used gun market.
Your study should also include information on how many guns were made by the manufacturer, major faults and recalls, and what owners think of the weapon.
Once you know which model you are going to buy, it is just as important to research the seller. Here are some things to consider for each venue:
- If you are buying from a gun shop, it should have a suitable location and address.
- Do not forget about pawn shops. They can be risky, especially if they are known to be disreputable. If you decide to buy a gun from a pawn shop, you will still have to fill out the same paperwork and go through the same routine as you would in any other gun shop. While pawn shops will not always give you the best price, they tend to be good for browsing.
- Gun shows are a good place to buy firearms. You can choose from hundreds of sellers that may have the gun model you are looking for. This includes guns that have upgraded sights or something else that may be of value to you. That being said, never buy on impulse at a gun show. Always have a detailed list of what you are looking for as well as any features or known problems that may show up in used models.
- On line gun shop market places- Overall, there are many online stores that have good reputations. Unfortunately, these venues do not make it possible to examine the gun in person. You will have to trust that the pictures and descriptions are accurate. Before you buy, check out the company’s BBB rating and see if there is anything else online that reveal previous customer experiences.
Used Guns and Previous Owners
Before you buy a used firearm, you should find out who the last owner was. If possible, find out if they used the gun much, and why they are selling it. Pay careful attention to whether or not the gun has been customized and the quality of that job. You should also find out if the gun is a police trade-in or manufacturer rebuild.
How to Examine a Gun Before Buying It
When you are buying a used gun, it is very important to study it carefully. Failure to do this is just asking to be ripped off. Here are some things to look for:
- Signs of excessive wear and tear, or anything else that will affect normal functioning.
- Is there anything loose or missing? Try shaking it to see if it rattles. If it makes noise, look for the reason why. If the problem is easy and cheap to fix, then you might consider buying the weapon.
- Was this firearm ever customized? If so what was done to it and is it of use to you?
- Request permission to dissemble the firearms. The best way to see the exact condition of a firearm is to dissemble or field strip it. This is the time to look for hidden problems such as a bulged barrel, hidden rust, and chamber pitting.
- Dry fire the weapon using a snap cap to simulate the actual workings of the firearm. If there is a problem with the weapon it will show up at this time. If the firearm has a magazine, drop it, safety check the weapon, and then rack the slide back a few times.
- Always be ready to walk away if the firearm isn’t what you want, or you have a nagging feeling that something isn’t right.
Negotiating the Sale Price
When buying new firearms, the price is set by the manufacturer, so there isn’t much you can do to get a lower price. When it comes to used guns, however, you can always ask the seller about the lowest price they will accept. Do not forget to also ask if there is a discount for paying cash or if they will take something else in trade to knock down the price. Don’t insult the seller with an excessively low price or a deal that isn’t equitable.
Buying Guns Via Private Sale
This form of purchase should also include a careful examination of the weapon to assess its functionality. It is still best to avoid buying guns from people you don’t know because of the research required on the history of the weapon. If you purchase a gun that was stolen or used in a crime, then you can wind up in some very serious legal trouble. You should also take care when buying ammo and magazines, as certain types may be banned in your state. Even if they are offered as part of the purchase, it is best to avoid buying something that will get you into trouble later on. Remember, your goal is to have a gun available in a time of need, not wind up in prison or unable to buy a weapon before that time.
Click here to get your guide to a layered survival defense!
If you decide to buy a gun through a private sale, only buy from people that you know and trust. That being said, there are still some things you can do if you feel a stranger has the model you are looking for at the right price. Make sure you meet them at a local shooting range. This is the perfect time and place to look the gun over and shoot it to see how well it works.
No matter how careful you are, do not forget that it is easy to be robbed during a private sale. If you don’t know the other person, try to meet in a public place, or in a safe buyer’s zone across the street from a police or sheriff’s office. It may also be of some help to have a trusted friend nearby that can assist if needed. Do not let on that you know the other person, as this could also put them in danger. As an additional option, you can always ask to have the transaction completed at a gun store and request an FFL transfer. This should clear up any legal issues or paperwork problems that would otherwise be hard to spot.
Gun Types and The Usefulness for Survival Needs
When you visit a gun store or gun show, you will see hundreds to thousands of guns on display. They literally come in all shapes, sizes, and capacities. In order to buy the best gun in your budget range, you should always keep in mind you are looking for something that can be used for survival and self defense. Even though a gun may get excellent reviews as a target or competition shooting gun, or it may be something similar to a military weapon, that doesn’t mean it is ideal for taking down a deer or defending your home. Here are some basic gun designs and how they may or may not work for survival needs.
- Handguns – You can choose between pistols and revolvers. Lower caliber weapons are good for beginners and may still work for personal defense. You will need something in a higher caliber for home defense and shooting anything other than small game. Choose a revolver for easy maintenance and reliability. If you are looking for better accuracy, greater ammunition capability, and accessories, go with a pistol.
- Semi-Auto Rifles – These are a good defense against a single or multiple adversaries and can be used for large game. They are also a good weapon if you must deal with a riot or other situation where you need to fire a lot of bullets before achieving safety. You will need a good bit of practice to use these guns correctly.
- Bolt Action Rifle – These rifles are better suited for home defense and hunting. They are also very easy to learn on and shoot.
- Lever Action Rifle – Also good for home defense and hunting. Beginners can also use them with very little training.
- Shotgun – Usually some of the best weapons for home defense. They also work well for hunting.
- Pump Action Shotgun – These guns will work for home defense and hunting, however they are time consuming to operate and there is more felt recoil. They are some of the most reliable long guns to operate, and require less training and practice to gain proficiency.
- Semi-Auto Shotgun – Fine for home defense and hunting. Gas system designs are harder to clean and may weigh more.
- Double and Single Barrel Shotguns – Both single and double barrel designs are often the gun of choice for hunting and home defense on a budget.
Budget Gun Models to Consider
The following firearms either new or used that I would recommend for individuals on a budget to buy for their family’s defensive and hunting needs.
Handguns
Pistols:
Taurus Millennium G2
- Caliber: 9mm
- Barrel: 3.25”
- Weight: 22 OZ.
- Sights: Fixed Front, Adjustable Rear
- Features: Picatinny Rail
- Finish: Matte Stainless or Black
- Capacity: 10/ 12 Shot Magazines
American Tactical FX-45
- Caliber: 45 ACP
- Barrel: 5”
- Weight: 49 OZ.
- Grips: Mahogany
- Sights: Fixed
- Features: Single Action
- Finish: Black
- Capacity: 7/8 Shot Magazine
American Tactical Imports GSG 1911
- Caliber: 22 Long Rifle
- Barrel: 5”
- Weight: 2.15 LBS.
- Grips: Walnut Grips
- Sights: Fixed 3 Dot
- Features: Single Action, Grip and Extended Safeties
- Finish: Black
- Capacity: 10 Rounds
Revolvers
Charter Arms Pathfinder
- Caliber: 22 Long Rifle
- Barrel: 2”
- Weight: 19 OZ.
- Grips : Rubber
- Sights: Fixed
- Features: SA/DA
- Finish: Stainless Steel
- Capacity: 6 Rounds
Taurus Model 65
- Caliber: .357 Mag. Or .38 Special +P
- Barrel: 4”
- Weight: 38 OZ.
- Grips: Rubber
- Sights: Fixed
- Features: SA/DA
- Finish: Stainless Steel
- Capacity: 6 Rounds
Rifles
Semi-Auto:
AR-15
Ruger AR-556 8500
- Caliber: 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington
- Barrel: 16.1 Cold Hammer Forged
- Stock: 6 Position Collapsible Stock
- Weight: 6.5 LBS.
- Grips: Black
- Finish: Black Type III Hard Coat Anodized
- Sights: Rear Flip/Up Front Sight Adjustable Post
- Features: Carbine Length Gas System, Mil-Spec Parts
- Capacity: 30 Rounds in Magazines
AK-47
Century Arms International RAS 47
- Caliber: 7.62x39mm
- Barrel: 16.25” Black Nitrite Treated With Muzzle Slant Brake
- Weight: 7.8 LBS.
- Grips: Black Plastic
- Sights: Front Shielded Adjustable Post, Rear Notched Rear Tangent Calibrated For 100 To 800 Meters
- Stock: Black Polymer Furniture, AKM Furniture Compatible
- Features: Stamped Receiver, Black Finnish, With RAK-1 Enhanced Trigger Group, 100% American Made
- Capacity: 30 Rounds And All Other AK-47 Magazines And Drums
Bolt action
Mossberg Patriot
- Caliber: .308
- Barrel: 22”
- Weight: 7 LBS.
- Grips: N/A
- Sights: Weaver Base, Scope Combo
- Stock: Laminate, Synthetic, or Walnut
- Finish: Matte Blue or Marinecote
- Features: Bolt Action,
- Capacity: 5 Shot Magazines
Savage Arms Mark II FFS Combo Bolt Action Rifle
- Caliber: .22 LR
- Barrel: 21” Stainless Steel
- Weight: 5.5 LBS.
- Grips: N/A
- Sights: 3-9×40 Scope (Pre Mounted)
- Stock: Synthetic
- Finish: Black
- Features: Right Hand Bolt Action, Savage Accu Trigger, Weaver Style Rings/Base, Sling Swivel Studs
- Capacity: 10 Round Magazines
Lever Action
Henry Lever Action/Varmint Express
- Caliber: 22 LR/L/ S
- Barrel: 18”
- Weight: 4.5 LBS.
- Grips: N/A
- Sights: Adjustable
- Stock: Walnut
- Finish: Black
- Features: Lever Action
- Capacity: 16 Round Magazines
Shotguns
Pump Actions
Mossberg Maverick 88
- Gauge: 12
- Barrel: 20” (Security) 3” Chamber
- Weight: 5.5 Lbs.
- Stocks: Synthetic
- Features: Smooth Pump Action
- Finish: Black
- Capacity: 5/8 Shot
Rock Island Armory M5
- Gauge: 12 (3” Chamber)
- Barrel: 20”
- Weight: 7.5 Lbs.
- Stocks: Polymer
- Features: Pump Action
- Finish: Matte Nickel
- Capacity: 5 Shot
Semi-Auto
Mossberg SA-20 Tactical
- Gauge: 20
- Barrel: 20” (3” Chamber)
- Weight: 5.75 LBS.
- Stocks: Black Polymer pistol grip
- Features: Optics Ready Top Rail, Ghost Ring Rear/ Fiber Optic Front Sights
- Capacity: 5 Rounds
Double Barrel
STOEGER Double Defense
- Gauge: 12
- Barrel: 20” (3” Chamber)
- Weight: 7 LBS.
- Stock: Black Finished Walnut
- Sights: Fiber-Optic Front, Picatinny Rail at Rear
- Features Over/Under Break Action
- Finish: Black
- Capacity: 2 Shots
STOEGER Coach
- Gauge: 12
- Barrel: 20” (3” Chamber)
- Weight: 6.5 LBS.
- Stock: Walnut/Hardwood
- Sights: Bead Front
- Features: Side-By-Side Boxlock Break Action, Double Triggers
- Finish: Matte Black
- Capacity: 2 Rounds
Single Barrel
Savage Stevens 301 Single Shot
- Gauge: 12
- Barrel: 26” (3” Chamber)
- Weight: 6 LBS.
- Stock: Synthetic
- Sights: Front Bead Sight
- Features: Single Shot Break Action, Removable Modified Choke, Winchester Choke Compatible
- Finish: Matte Black
- Capacity: 1 Shot
In a time of social unrest, there will be a definite need for low cost well built firearms to defend you and your family. Regardless of the age or history of the gun, it is important to choose one that will last a long time and be reliable.
It is also just as important to make sure that there are no legal problems associated with your purchase, as that can easily prevent you from having a gun and your freedom to move around when you need them most.
Bill in Idaho | February 14, 2018
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Hello, Fred. An Excellent Article. Some Really Useful comments, and Good Recommendations for Type Selections. I would make One Comment as a supplement to your Very Useful Article : Advise even Experienced SHOOTERS – aVOID oLD West Style S/A Six Guns for Deffence . . . Three Reasons : Slower to Load (No Speed-loaders here), Tricky to Cock, Aim and fire Accurately, and Slower to empty fired Brass. I have fired the old Colts and the S&W .44 Russian – Many Times, and I Love them. BUT, I Never Recommend them to Anyone. Bill
John | February 14, 2018
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Bolt action rifles are very poor for home defense. They are slow for a second shot, and most either are for small game, which means they are not effective at stopping an attacker, or they have high energy calibers which have a high probability of over penetration, putting innocents at risk. The only effective defensive use of a bolt action rifle is a distant, stationary attacker, that is, for counter sniper uses.
A single shot shotgun is also poor for home defense, again because of the extremely slow second shot and the odds of fumbling it under stress. The double barrel has the same problems with the third shot..
A semi-auto shotgun can ge useful for defense, as long as it can accept an extended magazine; some have mechanics in front of the magazine which physically limits it to 3 rounds..
When buying from a store, the marked price is not always the lowest price acceptable. List prices are almost always “suggested”. Always offer a lower price; you may not get it, but if you don’t offer it, you will not get it. And never ask for “the best price”. In a negotiation, a price is specified, and the ONLY valid responses are “Yes”, a counter offer, or “Get lost”. Anything else is just noise. Their marked price is their initial offer, the next step, a counter offer, is up to you.
I suspect that you cannot take a private sale to a FFL. If you do, they will have to hold on to it to do a stolen gun check, which means they have to log it in. So the sale will be delayed some number of days, and the normal form will need to be filled out and filed, and the background check done, and almost certainly the FFL will charge for all this.
Ask to disassemble someone else’s firearm? Um, I would not let anyone disassemble a firearm I was trying to sell unless I had the sale price in hand first. Would you? Frankly, anyone who would let that is someone who has nothing invested in the firearm, which would be very worrisome as to their legality.
Doc Kamakazi | February 19, 2018
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Thanks John! All very very good points. A nice bolt, great for hunting (accuracy), but only long range home defense (due to reload delay, but great to “pic’em off’ 100+ yards away). Local ffl’s in georgia will assist with a private transfer & background check (good idea, covers YOUR ass), and charge $20 to $35 to do it, some will even clean, inspect, & transfer for $50-$60. Disassemble a seller’s gun? Used: Better to play dumb, ask them to show you how. If they can’t, probably not a well maintained gun, pass.
William | February 14, 2018
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A good choice is a Ruger EC9S, an economy version of the LC9S.. It has the same 7 round capacity as the LC9S, has a good trigger, is easy to conceal, and although snappy, isn’t uncomfortable to shoot. The MSRP is $299, and I recently paid $240 at a gun show.
The Taurus Model 85 and 85 Ultralight are great little 5 shot, snub nose .38 special revolvers for a good price. I’ve had a stainless 85 and an 85 Ultralight. Both shot well and had good triggers. I would buy either before I’d buy a Charter.
yosemite | February 19, 2018
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First off I must say this IF you own only one gun, Learn and know how to se it. Learn it’s quirks and issues …… fixed sites on a hand gun……how does it shoot?? and at what distances??? Does it shoot low or High or Left or right???r Life and perhaps other depends on tat knowledge!
Next I will say this …KNOW WHAT You want…or at least a good idea of what you want…..Semi autos while great for self defense require magazines.
Magazines can and do go bad……. they also get lost……… so it is always a good idea to et extra magazines
Revolvers usually are limited to shots….That being said there are revolvers that will hold more…. depending on caliber….. A .357 Magnum revolver will allow you to shoot .38 Special ammunition….. Some .357 magnums will allow you to shoot other types of 9mm ammunition……But any .357 magnum revolver will handle any .38 special load including all +P Or +p+ safely an any .357 Magnum ammunition… NOT the other way around.
38 Special ammo is generally cheaper to shoot and practice with and any of the +P or +p+ ammo is good for self defense.
you get to guns in one and a greater chance of finding ammo. The same can be done with the .44 Magnum and the .44 special.
Some (if not all) states will not charge you a background check if you have a concealed carry license…Just an FYI
Gun shows can be good places to find weapons at good prices…. there are also dealers demanding premium prices….. some will deal with you, some won’t……….
All reputable pawn…unless they do not have a class I or Class ii License stores have new weapons to sale…Usually on sale at reasonable prices and some at very good prices.
when dealing with a pawn shop and if you have anything for sale to them……..instead of selling it outright you will get more value if you ask for store credit………… then apply the store credit to the firearm or ammunition or whatever it is you are going to buy……..
Unfortunately privately owned gun shops while are best to deal with cannot meet or match the prices in he larger chain stores, in general…. though you can meet people that night have something you want and be willing to part with it…..
are you good with power tools mainly dremmel tools? and files? are you mechanically inclined at all? you can do a search on the net and look for 80% receivers……… you can find them for Glocks, 1911s, ar-15s. and numerous other weapons.. you buy a parts kit, with a bit of careful work with the dremmel and files…perhaps some allen wrenches or screwdrivers please use firearm screw drivers or you ill mess up the heads .you can build your own firearm.
you can find a lot of items and things in “firearm news”………but know what you are ordering from them.
The Ruger takedown 10/22 or even the regular 1022 can handle larger magazines and there are many different kits and other items available for it. It is proven tough, dependable, and reliable.
the ruger mini-14 …you want it in 5.56 NATO or the mini 30 in the 7.62 Russian… you do not want to fire a lot of 5.56 NAto in a .223 Remington the 5.56 nato is loaded to a higher chamber pressure…………..but you can also fire the .223 Remington. with no problem.
The Mini- 14 and the Ruger mini-30 ill do the same as an AR 15 in the 5.56 NATO ill do and the mini-30 will do everything an ak-47 will do.
bolt rifles 7.62 NATO = .308 Winchester so two calibers in one gun………great hunting round, short action bolt……great defense round and will over penetrate… the round will go a long way if you practice with the rifle and learn to shoot long ranges..
Military calibers mean such ammo calibers will be easier to find such as 9mm nato. .45 acp, 5.56 nato , 12 gauge shotgun 7.62 NATO. ………. >>>>>>note>>>>>> .7.62 Nato and 7.62 Russian are not interchangeable!!!! they are two totally different rounds!
Something to consider on shotguns everyone thinks they are the best because the military and police use them…………..which is fine well and good……..But it comes with recoil that most light statured people…even some men have issues with.
I would highly suggest the 20 gauge… a lot less recoil and no bad guy is going to notice or care about the difference in the damage the 20 gauge does vs the damage the 12 gauge does……. especially since not having recoil issues the person shooting the 20 gauge can and will shoot the weapon more accurately.
Using single action six guns or cowboy pistols……… they will work and have worked for years…the are the best option in a shoot out then again no handgun is…………depending on the range I would rather have a shotgun or an AR platform … but you use what you have on your person and
accuracy is more important than caliber or firearm.
LA PD proved having more ammo increases missed hits on the target. The LAPD went from round revolvers to the military 9mm 15 round magazine. they also went to 147 grain jacketed hollow point it was a special purpose round and not made for self defense… more on that at another time……
breaks down to what you can afford and what you want to own…lay-a-way is always an option……
My opinion and it is j ust that my opinion!!!
A ruger 10/22 is if I could only own one gun……….a 25-30 round magazine of .22 lr should handle intruders
and definitely have spare magazines.
in the group below I would like to add a .22 LR either handgun or rifle or both if possible
one can find .22 single action revolvers that come with a .22 magnum cylinder a different caliber that packs a bigger punch
to handle snakes and other small vermin…….
also one can store 1000 rounds in a verysmall space.
consider an air rifle with over 1000 fps…… you can store thousands of rounds in a very tiny space
available in walmart under $100.00 USD!
a handgun for self defense
a rifle for hunting and self defense
a shotgun for self defense hunting deer and birds, rabbits
ruger makes a “Gunsite Scout rifle” worth looking at
A lot of information to go through and considering
but please understand the importance of what you are considering buying
your and other’s lives are going to be on the line! get all of the information you can
from where you can.
I will be
I do not work for ruger but I own more than one of them and In like them
Make sure any handgun or rifle/ shotgun feels good in your hand and arms….
I will answer any question in here that I can…….
John | February 19, 2018
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A 22LR cannot handle an intruder reliably. Stopping power is key and the 22LR doesn’t have much. If the intruder is armed and you use a 22, the odds are way too high that you are going to be shot.
A Dremel tool is not a top choice for making your own gun. It can be used for minor adjustments, but is seriously inefficient at removing large amounts of material. Making your own can be fun, and keep you out of databases, but it’s not really cost effective. You can usually get a commercial equivalent for the same price or less.
Recoil handling has a large technique component. THE 20GA DOES HAVE LESS RECOIL, BUT IT ALSO HAS LESS EFFECT AND MUCH LESS VARIETY IN AVAILABLE AMMUNITION, iF YOU CAN LEARN TO USE A 12GA, THAT IS A BETTER PATH. iF YOU JUST CAN’T DO IT, 20GA IS NOT WITHOUT SOME USAGE.
sINGLE ACTION REVOLVERS ARE NOT A GOOD CHOICE. tHEY ARE SLOW TO FIRE, REALLY SLOW TO RELOAD, AND MORE DIFFICULT TO CARRY OR CONCEAL THAN A MODERN REVOLVER. bETTER THAN NOTHING, BUT NOWHERE NEAR OPTIMAL
yosemite | February 19, 2018
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you use what you have if you don’t think a .22 Lr can and will kill then do not ever handle one. you are a danger to everyone if you do. The mafia, the mossad and others have used .22lr to assassinate or kill people….
is a .22lr preferred or ideal weapon for self defense ???
not really,, but for people with arthritic or weak grips who do not have full use of their hands and arms, the .22 LR is about the only caliber the can handle, or maybe chamber a round or is the only firearm they own. what do you suggest they do?? not use it and let whatever happens to them happen??
do you not think a half dozen or more .22 LR in center mass or in the forehead/eye/ nose area will stop a bad guy or make him rethink his actions?
I have no issues using a .22 lr on any bad guy…….6-11 or more hits from a .22 LR count more than 8 – 10 or more misses with a .45 ACP..
If you do not believe a .22 LR can and will kill please feel free to stand in front of one.. Here’s your sign! IF you do not believe one can lay down suppressive fire with a ruger 10/22 wth aftermarket magazines you best guess again…..
Do you have any idea what 80% receivers are? Obviously you do not and a dremmel is just about as perfect tool for removing the 20% of material. that is why the are called 80% receivers….btw one does need an ffl to purchase one or more…….or the complete parts kits. one can complete a glock 20 in an hour or so with a dremmel tool and parts kit.
As for cost effective….yes, the are ….if you shop around and get the receiver and parts kits at a decent price because you know the quality of parts and you don’t need to send it back or have to pay a gunsmith…….If you are not good at or like making things…. stick to buying a completed firearm.
Accuracy and hits count and are more important than caliber/gauge and misses…. do you think a bad guy hit in the chest with a 20 gauge load of # 3 buckshot or slug is going to know or care they were not shot with a 12 gauge?
the 20 gauge is big among dove, quail pheasant etc hunting for a reason. It is .light fast handling low recoil and accurate.!
as for the Single Action I needed to proof read it better……. the Single Action six guns may not be the best but they do work…. most double actions I own I usually shoot single action…. there were some pocket pistol single actions made back in the day…. one can carry a large caliber single action in a shoulder holster the same with an large or large caliber/bore revolver..
usually one does not need a large amount of ammunition in a justifiable shooting………..but there is nothing wrong with having more ammunition. One can never have too much ammunition or too many guns!
firearms are tools………like any tool they are made for specific jobs but can do more than one job……..one would not use a .22 lr to kill large dangerous game……nor use a big bore dangerous game rifle say a .375 h&h or a .460 Weatherby magnum to plink or get rid of vermin snakes or hunt small game………..all firearms will and can kill!
The most important and the best firearm anyone can ever own is the one in they have in their hands in time of need.
If all they have a . 22 lr then so be it….it is much better than the .45 acp or the 12 gauge or ar or ak back home in a safe
John | February 19, 2018
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Oh, sorry, I was interested in protecting myself by stopping an attacker. I have no interest in killing. Certainly a person can die from a 22LR with perfect placement, or an hour later from so-so ;placement. In a crisis, perfect placement is not guaranteed. If it is all you have, it is better than crawling in a corner and pleading for mercy, but making it your primary plan is encouraging failure.
Multiple rounds do indeed increase your chance of surviving, but what if there are 2 or 3 attackers? The others will get you while you are disabling the first one.
Actually, I am very familiar with 80% receivers, writing a 6 part series of articles on them. And yes, you CAN do it with a dremil. It is very slow, with a high probability of messing it up, and being just barely functional if you don’t mess it up. It is the worst possible way of removing large amounts of material and isn’t that great on accuracy either.
One thing I know about 80% receivers is there is no such thing. That is not a technical term, it is a MARKETING term. The BATFE will evaluate an unfinished receiver (the correct term) to determine whether it can “fire a projectile as a result of an explosion or be easily converted to do so”. They have determined that for an AR-15, if the Hammer/Trigger pocket is not completed, it is not a gun; and if it is, it is a gun. It has nothing to do with how much of the making has been done, it is how easy it is to complete it.
Btw, an approved “80%” receiver does NOT require a FFL to buy one. Or 100. Nor is a FFL required to buy ANY OTHER PART. Maybe you can do a Glock in an hour with a dremil. You can’t do an AR-15 in an hour with a dremil.
When I was doing my articles, the best kit price was about $400, and the cheapest AR-15 completed was about $500. Lately, I’ve seen both about $100 cheaper. But the jig and the GOOD tools to make them will cost another couple of hundred, so it is not cheaper to build then buy assuming equal quality. You build because it is fun, and because you can get exactly what you want, and for education, and so that it is not listed in some government database for when they announce they have been made illegal.
If you are going to own a gun, you must be willing to learn to shoot it accurately (and safely). So I assume that a person is going to hit pretty much what they aim at. I know, it is not a reliable assumption.
Sure you CAN carry a single action in a shoulder holster. It won’t conceal as well, and it won’t defend you as well if you need more than one quick shot. So why not carry a smaller, more appropriate revolver or automatic?
but you are right, the gun you have is better than a better choice which is not with you. I’m just saying, it is wise to plan to always have the best practical in every situation.
yosemite | February 20, 2018
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have you ever had to sign an use of force/ Use of deadly force/ use of lethal force policy statements? The are called deadly or lethal force for a reason. true one shoots to stop the threat but in real life shootings….
you are using a firearm to stop the bad guy/s…………. that means what to you?
where are you going to shoot the bad guy/s to stop them? how many rounds do you fire to stop the bad guy/s?
where do you aim? In the military and else where we train/ed to aim for center mass…..giving The greatest probability of a hit..
When you fire a firearm at a person be ready to kill them…..
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any direct hit to the cns will stop anyone including bad guy/s……immediately…….you practice and train as much as you can…..you prepare as best you can. However no one can prepare for everything. You do your best to keep mister murphy on vacation else where.
yes I know are not required by the batfe….. I posted again as soon as I saw that..
you do realize there are other firearms such as Glocks and 1911 kits or sten guns and other arious and numerous weapons besides AR’s
Single actions are not that much slower to shoot….ever seen anyone fan one?. they are much slower to reload though….to be honest was not aware concealed carry. was an issue here…
ultimately what do you carry a concealed a revolver or semi auto? one can carry a Ruger or S&w revolver with no external hammer in one’s pocket or woman’s purse and fire it without fear of jamming the slide on an automatic…………….
one will need a new jacket or woman’s purse though………just saying…….most semis need a proper holster…..and a place for extra magazines…… so there are pros and cons for each ………and up to personal tastes/preferences.
John | February 20, 2018
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No, I’ve never had to sign one of those statements. Under what conditions would that be a requirement?
The only moral reason to shoot someone is to stop them from what they are doing, RIGHT NOW. This would be a double tap to center of mass, and if they continued to be a threat, one to the head. when they are on the ground, unarmed and restrained, they are no longer a threat. The thing you are stopping them from doing must be so important that it does not matter whether or not they die from the stopping.
I know there are 1911 kits, and I am aware of Glock kits. When I was big into guns, I was a big fan of the 1911. I didn’t think much of the Glocks when they came out, and got bored with guns before I had any chance to change that opinion. A 10/22 would be a fun project, but as for Sten guns and the like, meh.. Their charm was their full auto capability, and that can’t be (Legally) recreated. I imagine there are people who would like to have one on their wall, but I’m not one of them.
Yes, I’ve seen people fan a single action. Not sure I’ve seen anyone HIT anything while they were fanning it 🙂
The reason to carry concealed is because if the bad guy knows you are armed, he can eliminate you as a threat before you realize there is a serious situation. And in serious situation, you want the most reliable stopping gun and ammo combination practical. The pocket pistols conceal well, but don’t have the stopping power.
yosemite | February 20, 2018
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I would highly suggest for one to read the Use of Force policy in their area/community/city/state and know them…..we had to sign them every time we qualified with any weapon in the military and security contractors.
One must always use the minimum amount of force to stop a possible threat…..example use voice commands if they do not work you escalate the amount of force needed to stop the threat……
one should know the definition of deadly or lethal force….it is explained/defined on the form. I can explain it but it may be different where you
live so it may read differently …….it tells you what Is needed and all the steps you must go through…..meaning you have exhausted all other lesser force possible…….and are in a situation where a reasonable person would be in fear of their life or severe/great bodily harm……
then there is the Castle Doctrine law check our state and see if it applies…….simply if you are in your dwelling (but there is a bit more to it0 you and there is are bad guys inside you do not have to retreat and you can use deadly force to stop them.
two to the chest and one in the head is the recipe for deader than dead..I am not quite sure hat you mean by “stopping power”
The smaller revolvers aka snubbies in .38 special and in .357 magnum will stop bad guys using .38 special +p or +P+ ammo.. most shootings
occur at close range and use less than a full load… the .32 ACP is pretty effective and so is the .380……. it used to be the largest of the smallest automatics one could get. at that time certain loads were more powerful than certain .38 specials not counting the +p or +P+
Now they are making compact 9mm NATO autos that are the same size or smaller than the “old .380s.. also small other calibers as well.
one can LEGALLY build a select fire arm of their choosing…… one can pay the BATFE for the stamp ….
I am not sure of this and have not researched it ….I have heard as long as the weapon does not leave the state you do not need the batfe stamp…….
I have seen action shooters do some amazing things including fanning………by the way the fastest shooter on record is a guy shooting double action revolvers and it faster than any semi auto out there.
bad guy/s are in your house uninvited in your house at oh dark 30…..what you firearm do you use? it is our house you and possibly the bad guy/s
shooting inside our house…. do you have children or others staying indifferent room where the buckshot or whatever projectiles and weaponry you are using going through the walls and hitting them?
Open carry vs concealed….If the bad guy/s see you are armed they ill usually go seek easier targets else where.. always maintain your Situational awareness. (SA) notice everyone and everything around you notice any and every potential possible threat and evaluate them…..triage them…avenues of approach and escape…….
learn human anatomy for pressure points and here organs are located………..you ill need to know them for treating wounds…….learn the central nervous system if you do not know it.
in a real shtf the balloon goes up, the end of the world as we know it or a sunspot or an EMP attack fries the power grid and kills all the electronics that are not hardened……..an in such cases life as we knew it goes out the window…..stopping bad guys ill be come killing bad guys. in a very short time……people going hungry will kill for water / food and other supplies……..
oh yeah that pellet rifle can be used as a defensive weapon on bad guys hitting them in the eyes or above their eyes……….it will not kill them but it will hurt them pretty bad if employed the right way………. perhaps buy time to get back to home and grab a rifle…….
Also something I have not seen mentioned are crossbows or tomahawks…
John | February 20, 2018
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You are right, it is critically important to know the laws pertaining to self defense in whatever jurisdictions you are in.
A double tap to center mass often results in death, but with good ammunition (and no body armor) is usually enough to stop an attacker. One in the head almost always leads to death, which is why you never do it unless the double tap does not disable the threat.
Stopping power is the proven capability of a round to stop an UNARMORED attacker with a center of mass hit.. The key factors are bullet diameter and pentration. .38 caliber and smaller bullets do not exhibit good stopping power. That is why expanding bullets are necessary for reliable stopping in these calibers. With a good expanding bullet, 38 special, .357 Magnum and 9mm are fairly good at stopping an attacker. 380 and 32 are poor at reliably stopping an attacker, even with a good bullet, significantly less than a 50% chance, and those are not odds I can tolerate.
Sorry, you are mistaken. There is no legal way for any select fire/fully automatic weapon to be made after 1986 unless it is for government agency use. You CAN make a short barreled rifle or shotgun by paying the tax stamp, But you can not take it out of the state where it is registered without notifying the BATFE. You can own a machine gun made before 1986 if you pay the tax stamp, and again don’t take it out of the state without notifying the BATFE.
What a bad guy will do when he sees an armed person depends on his motivation. If he is just looking for an easy something, yes he will go elsewhere. If he is highly motivated for this particular target, he will deal with the known armed person first. This is, by the way, why so many mass shootings happen in “gun free zones”.
Tomahawks are pretty neat. I wrote an article about them a while back.
Neil D Herman | May 22, 2019
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Obviously YOU do not know what a 80% lower or frame is! NO ONE needs a FFL to buy ANYTHING associated with 80% guns! You might want to check facts again before YOU starting talking like YOU are the authority on everything and building a 80% Glock will cost as much as a new one the advantage is it’s untraceable. You sir are a danger to everyone. YOU talk about how you can kill someone with just a .22 You like to give an example like the Mafia or Mossad how dumb is that? MOST people are not proficient enough with a firearm under extreme stress to use a .22 as a defensive weapon. Sincerely, N. Herman
yosemite | February 19, 2018
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one DOES NOT NEED an ffl or to go through an ffl dealer………to buy 0% receivers.!
the batf does not consider them as of yet). to be a firearm like they do regular receivers…..
dang no edit button.
Doc Kamakazi | February 19, 2018
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Yo, descent air rifle under $100??? Georgia Walmarts get way more, $235+ but still, always need a 1000+ fps air rifle for backup when SHTF. On-line you can find: XISICO XS16, 800 FPS, .22 cal,, not bad for $69, Crossman F4 Nitro, 1200+ FPS, includes a nice scope, .17 cal, very good for $99. Either could keep you with a steady supply of fresh squril, rabbit, even quail. Quiet operation and cheap ammo mean you can practice, practice, practice, even in suburban neighborhoods…. with caution. Realize a .17 pellet at 1200 FPS, can be dangerous/harmfull, even over a mile away if you miss your intended target.
yosemite | February 19, 2018
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I am in georgia, they had several in there …I forget the brand/maker of the one I mentioned…another maker I forget came with a .17 and a extra ..22 caliber barrel. it was both under $100.00 usd.. I think the . .22 barrel was around 800 FPS…. not sure now.
The had a ruger I forget the model was around 140.00 usd.. that was ummm…….. last month I looked…….
Here is a walmart online catalog on pellet rifles
https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=pellet%20rifles.&typeahead=pellet
There is a Crossman .17 caliber rated at 1200 fps for $79.00 uSD ….depends on how one rates Crossman. quality…..
one thing to remember on any of the break action piston higher velocity rifles is they are harder to cock………..
yosemite | February 21, 2018
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I was in walmart found at least 2 Beemans for under $100.00 USD one as a Silver Kodiak(?) deluxe 2. had the .17 barrel and the .22 barrel……both air rifles ere 1200 fps or faster ecept the .22 and it as rated at 950 fps.
MarkRB | February 20, 2018
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LOL!!! An article on buying cheap guns for self defense and not a single mention of HiPoint??? I have both the 9mm pistol and the 9mm carbine rifle, which cost less than $500 for both. They both shoot excellent and have lifetime warranty.
Shaun | February 11, 2023
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Mark RB, I too have these. They are ugly, heavy, and unless you get the aftermarket 20 round mags, only have 8 and10 round capacity magazines.
Having said these negative points (in my opinion ) up front, I can also AGREE with you, they shoot well, have a warranty policy that’s among the best I have ever seen, a customer service department that is outstanding, and I have used both enough to attest to their reliability.
Approaching 1,000 rounds between them, I haven’t yet had a FTF, a FTE, and only one double feed.
Yes, a buddy has teased me about it being ugly and cheap, but even he says they shot well for him.
I’ll say it again, they are UGLY, and the pistol can substitute for a weightlifting exercise tool. But I am very glad to have spent well under even your figure for the pair.
I would buy either one again if I lost it. I won’t add another to what I have, but they DO fill a spot that suits them for me.
Jason Smith | February 26, 2018
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Avoid the Colt Freedom Series .308. Piece of junk
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Phantom30 | April 8, 2019
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Go to a gun show or maybe a pawn shop and pickup a 9mm browning HI Power clone. Usually reliable, accurate, and low cost. And with LE ammo quite useful.